<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: Problems with Total Depravity or Inability	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.theologicalsystems.com/calvinism/problems-with-total-depravity-or-total-inability/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.theologicalsystems.com/calvinism/problems-with-total-depravity-or-total-inability/</link>
	<description>David Cox</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2026 21:26:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: admin		</title>
		<link>https://www.theologicalsystems.com/calvinism/problems-with-total-depravity-or-total-inability/#comment-35</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theologicalsystems.com/?p=301#comment-35</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.theologicalsystems.com/calvinism/problems-with-total-depravity-or-total-inability/#comment-33&quot;&gt;Scot&lt;/a&gt;.

Good points, but like a typical Calvinist you confuse the difference between ability and credit or value. One thing is that we have nothing (outside of Christ) which would obligate God to allow us into heaven, and it is a totally different thing to say we are unable to respond or obey God&#039;s will. Rom 8:7-8 and Luke 17:10, and Rom 7:18 all address our lack of moral merit before God to get into heaven. John 6:44 on the other hand speaks of ability, and this is a conditional statement. Nobody can access God and later salvation without God &quot;opening the door.&quot; True, but John also says that if Jesus is lifted up, he will draw all men unto him. Jesus was lifted up, so are all men saved? No. Why not? Because the problem here is that it is not God turning on or off a &quot;salvation&quot; switch within us. God saves us by grace (a free gift coming from the will of God) through faith. This is the most clearest and basic point of salvation. You believe God&#039;s offer (receiving it), and you are saved. 
1.) Please show me 1 single verse where a minister of God in the Bible, especially Jesus Christ, stood before unsaved people, and told them that they &quot;could be saved&quot; if they were elected by God, otherwise they were damned to hell. I NEVER find any reference to election, being chosen, or predestination in any Gospel presentation. 
2.) What is always the presentation of Salvation? Is it not ALWAYS, believe God and you will be saved? Is not Abraham&#039;s example primal here? Abraham &quot;BELIEVED GOD&quot; and it was counted to him for righteousness. The moral action of believing is what God waits for before saving a person. This is never passive event that the person &quot;waits on God to decide to save him&quot;, rather it is always &quot;thrown in the individual&#039;s lap&quot;, believe and be saved, or if you refuse, you are damned. This is consistently the presentation of the Gospel throughout the Old and New Testaments. 
3.) If you change the Gospel (how somebody &quot;GETS&quot; saved), you have another Gospel that Jesus and the Apostles, and the primitive church did not have. According to my reading of Scripture, you are saved by your faith. The Calvinist say you are saved by God&#039;s election of you, without your faith. You have nothing to do with either faith nor your own salvation, but rather you are completely passive in it, i.e. any faith that you could possibly have is because God preprogrammed you to have it. No. Jesus was raised, and that was the act or event to created the possibility that would could have faith and be saved. God&#039;s act of the cross is the great &quot;faith causing&quot; event of all history. When you disenfocus off of Christ and the cross causing faith for our salvation to an hidden agenda of election, you have another Gospel other than that presented in the Bible. The bottom line is, read the entire Bible, and notice how many times God places man&#039;s destiny squarely a responsability on his own shoulders. If we morally act, we will be saved. If we refuse to act according to God&#039;s instructions, we ourselves have condmened ourselves to hell. Our destiny is very much a result of our own moral actions.
4.) If a person is saved, is God left out of it? Absolutely not. Whenever a person is saved, it is because of all that God has done in that person&#039;s life to bringing him to salvation. But that doesn&#039;t remove the responsibility or the &quot;trigger of salvation&quot; being our decision to obey God and believe in Christ as our Saviour.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.theologicalsystems.com/calvinism/problems-with-total-depravity-or-total-inability/#comment-33">Scot</a>.</p>
<p>Good points, but like a typical Calvinist you confuse the difference between ability and credit or value. One thing is that we have nothing (outside of Christ) which would obligate God to allow us into heaven, and it is a totally different thing to say we are unable to respond or obey God&#8217;s will. Rom 8:7-8 and Luke 17:10, and Rom 7:18 all address our lack of moral merit before God to get into heaven. John 6:44 on the other hand speaks of ability, and this is a conditional statement. Nobody can access God and later salvation without God &#8220;opening the door.&#8221; True, but John also says that if Jesus is lifted up, he will draw all men unto him. Jesus was lifted up, so are all men saved? No. Why not? Because the problem here is that it is not God turning on or off a &#8220;salvation&#8221; switch within us. God saves us by grace (a free gift coming from the will of God) through faith. This is the most clearest and basic point of salvation. You believe God&#8217;s offer (receiving it), and you are saved.<br />
1.) Please show me 1 single verse where a minister of God in the Bible, especially Jesus Christ, stood before unsaved people, and told them that they &#8220;could be saved&#8221; if they were elected by God, otherwise they were damned to hell. I NEVER find any reference to election, being chosen, or predestination in any Gospel presentation.<br />
2.) What is always the presentation of Salvation? Is it not ALWAYS, believe God and you will be saved? Is not Abraham&#8217;s example primal here? Abraham &#8220;BELIEVED GOD&#8221; and it was counted to him for righteousness. The moral action of believing is what God waits for before saving a person. This is never passive event that the person &#8220;waits on God to decide to save him&#8221;, rather it is always &#8220;thrown in the individual&#8217;s lap&#8221;, believe and be saved, or if you refuse, you are damned. This is consistently the presentation of the Gospel throughout the Old and New Testaments.<br />
3.) If you change the Gospel (how somebody &#8220;GETS&#8221; saved), you have another Gospel that Jesus and the Apostles, and the primitive church did not have. According to my reading of Scripture, you are saved by your faith. The Calvinist say you are saved by God&#8217;s election of you, without your faith. You have nothing to do with either faith nor your own salvation, but rather you are completely passive in it, i.e. any faith that you could possibly have is because God preprogrammed you to have it. No. Jesus was raised, and that was the act or event to created the possibility that would could have faith and be saved. God&#8217;s act of the cross is the great &#8220;faith causing&#8221; event of all history. When you disenfocus off of Christ and the cross causing faith for our salvation to an hidden agenda of election, you have another Gospel other than that presented in the Bible. The bottom line is, read the entire Bible, and notice how many times God places man&#8217;s destiny squarely a responsability on his own shoulders. If we morally act, we will be saved. If we refuse to act according to God&#8217;s instructions, we ourselves have condmened ourselves to hell. Our destiny is very much a result of our own moral actions.<br />
4.) If a person is saved, is God left out of it? Absolutely not. Whenever a person is saved, it is because of all that God has done in that person&#8217;s life to bringing him to salvation. But that doesn&#8217;t remove the responsibility or the &#8220;trigger of salvation&#8221; being our decision to obey God and believe in Christ as our Saviour.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Scot		</title>
		<link>https://www.theologicalsystems.com/calvinism/problems-with-total-depravity-or-total-inability/#comment-33</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2012 20:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theologicalsystems.com/?p=301#comment-33</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Christ&#039;s words on man&#039;s ability before salvation: &quot;No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him...&quot; (John 6:44)
Paul&#039;s words: &quot;Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.&quot; (Rom. 8:7-8)

Christ&#039;s words on man&#039;s good works in the state of salvation: &quot;So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded say, &#039;We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.&#039;&quot; (Luke 17:10)
Paul&#039;s words: &quot;For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh)nothing good dwells...(Rom. 7:18)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christ&#8217;s words on man&#8217;s ability before salvation: &#8220;No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him&#8230;&#8221; (John 6:44)<br />
Paul&#8217;s words: &#8220;Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.&#8221; (Rom. 8:7-8)</p>
<p>Christ&#8217;s words on man&#8217;s good works in the state of salvation: &#8220;So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded say, &#8216;We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.'&#8221; (Luke 17:10)<br />
Paul&#8217;s words: &#8220;For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh)nothing good dwells&#8230;(Rom. 7:18)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
