Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse #3

Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse #3

Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse #2 I Comment on the last five of Neffs 11 points of difference between healthy churches and abusive ones.

Commentary about Enroth, R. – Recovering from Churches that Abuse

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Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse #2

Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse #2

Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse #2 I Comment on the first six of Neffs 11 points of difference between healthy churches and abusive ones.

Commentary about Enroth, R. – Recovering from Churches that Abuse

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Congregationalism

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Congregationalism

By David Cox

From wikipedia.org…

Congregational churches are Protestant Christian churches practicing Congregationalist church governance, in which each congregation independently and autonomously runs its own affairs.

Many Congregational churches claim their descent from a family of Protestant denominations formed on a theory of union published by the theologian Robert Browne in 1592. These arose from the Nonconformist religious movement during the Puritan reformation of the Church of England. In Great Britain, the early congregationalists were called separatists or independents to distinguish them from the similarly Calvinistic Presbyterians. Some congregationalists in Britain still call themselves Independent. continue reading wikipedia.org

Evaluation by David Cox

I think that it is improper to judge men of times past by our standards today, thinking that every Christian and preacher from the time of Christ has to be and think like we do today. Would I change my beliefs and positions to theirs? no, not necessarily. Some would say Martin Luther was a great man of God, and some Baptists even make him to be the “best Baptist” that ever walked the earth from their praise of him. He was a Catholic priest. You cannot get around that main point. However, in his day, in his situation historically and religiously, he was a great man, because being a Catholic priest, he was honest with his Bible, and he took a standard for the truth, and paid a heavy price for that stand. I can give the man that praise very much. Lutheranism reflects Luther, and their beliefs about the Lord’s Supper, for example, would show where Luther didn’t separate himself sufficiently from the Roman doctrines.

I would consider that the Congregationalists are a group “coming out of” or “in the same vein as” the Puritans. I think that they desires were purity and faithfulness to the Scriptures, and they reacted against the Anglican and Catholic church structures and heresies of their day. I would highly recommend them for these stands. Furthermore, they understood the error of “rule by select few” that the Roman Catholics and Anglicans drove into the extreme. Their charter Savoy Declaration clearly rejects an earthly government more than the local assembly. The Congregationalists placed a tremendous importance on decisions being made at a member level instead of behind closed doors by Popes and Archbishops. Again this is a heroic stand that they made against all religions of their day that did things in an unbiblical way. According to this article, The Congregationalists, (http://www.pamphlets.org.au/australia/acts1213.html) the forces and tendencies within the group today are working to overpower the individualism and replace it with an over arching organization, and basically that is the way things go with all independents, they succumb to pressures to “join”, “associate”, and “submit to” losing their independence.

I would also see a lot of the historic Baptist beliefs and practices being completely in sync with this group, such as universal priesthood of EVERY believer and no special priests.

Moreover, some of their main preachers were men of God that God greatly used in their day to do the work of God. Their basic mind-set was/is to find out what the Bible says, and believe that without getting so involved in church polity, religious political movements, etc. as the deciding factors of doctrine and practice. In heart, I would see them as basically the same thing as a good Baptist, a good separated Fundamentalist, although those exact words may not have been applied to them.

I would heartily recommend Congregationalist works in general.

Principle men in Congregationalism

George Campbell Morgan – After Spurgeon, I consider G.C. Morgan to be one of those “princes among preachers”. I say that not so much from examining and studying their sermons, (I don’t get a whole lot out of Spurgeon’s sermons either even though both he and I are Baptists), but because of the rapport that these men had with their audiences. God has men for each age, and the men that have a ministry like these men preach in such a fashion as that they “strike a note” with their congregations, and because a “success” (probably more in men’s eyes than God really), and they become very popular among Christians in their day. In general, some of their sermons would seem to be “light” on Bible exposition, and light on applications, but I say that judging them from our perspective of today. In their day, their sermons were what God sent for those people. The people of yesteryear were more simple, and life was not as complicated as today, and a preacher’s resource were not what we have today with all the volumes and volumes of books available, and even computer programs and libraries that are available (www.twmodules.com). Having said that, let me recommend Morgan, because his works are very good, even though they may not be exactly what a sermon of today would be, his sermons are very good instruments of God for probing the heart.

Dwight Lyman Moody – This is another man that was a “prince of preachers” in his day. His works would all be highly recommended as well as Morgan’s

 The Problems of Congregationalism

Having recommended Congregationalism, and having identified it with the basic tenets of Baptist and Fundamental doctrines and practices, I must digress and add that there are some logistical and theological problems with Congregationalism. See the article in the link below. I would agree with Burk that there are logistical and theological problems in submitting everything to a vote. While the NT churches did involve the members in the activities and decisions of the local church, there are problems with this. My view is that a church, a family, a business, a country are all the same. The value of the whole is made up by the value of the individuals, plus or minus some by putting them together. If a church has strong men of God, the church will probably be strong. If the men there are weak, of poor discernment and doctrine, and don’t stand for God and His principles (i.e. aren’t true men of God), the church will reflect this plus some.

See also Denny Burk –  Is Congregationalism from Satan?

My Opinion

While this system could be good, I see it as a reaction against regular ministers running a local church. The New Testament has Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Titus, Timothy, etc. as being in charge of works. These are ministers obviously. What do you get by removing this “minister” element and replacing it with a straight vote of the congregation?

  1. The wisdom and experience of ministers is destroyed. People who have been burned don’t get the weight of their experience, preparation, godly calling, personal walk with Christ, etc. Everybody is equal.
  2. Mnistering, and being aware and informed of all the bad stuff out there takes a lot of time and energy and preparation to be on top of it. Most individuals in a congregation have a fight just to show up at all the services. They are not willing to pay that price. Yet 2 dozen of them that are barely participating will outweight several very godly ministers.
  3. I would see this as a consequence of a congregation not being able to select godly men to minister over them. Since they cannot select real men of God, they capitchulate to a democratic vote hoping that this will solution their problems. But this is extremely dangerous. When these people have assets and resources, another group can seed their own people into the congregation outnumbering those who were originally part of the group by 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 and vote the church do whatever they want. I have seen this in Baptist churches on the mission field.
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Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse Chap #1

Commentary about Enroth, R. – Recovering from Churches that Abuse

Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse is a commentary post about some of my ideas about Enroth’s book Comments on Recovering from Churches that abuse. This post is only comments from Chapter 1.

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A study on False Prophets and Teachers

A study on False Prophets and Teachers is excerpted from some good old books about false prophets and teachers.

taken from http://www.sounddoctrine.net/apologetics.html

A cult becomes destructive when:

¨      It isolates members from family and friends.

¨      The group interferes with an individual’s ability to think freely.

¨      A charismatic figure dominates the group, claiming to have a direct line to God or some secret knowledge that makes the group elite.

¨      The cult persuades members that the group goal is more important than individual needs, using guilt and shame to keep followers from questioning doctrine.

¨      The leader instills fear that something dreadful will happen to anyone who leaves.

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Total Depravity: 2. Counter Examples of Noah and Abraham

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Counter Example of Noah

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

noah Total DepravityIF ever there were a verse to teach total depravity, it is this one. God declares that he is displeased with every imagination.. thoughts of mankind. He saw it as continual evil. But what is the context? While this is true, men sin, and the grossness of their sin at times comes to a climax which causes God to respond with wrath (the flood), there are individuals which do not fit in that mold (Noah). Calvnists don’t like to use this verse to prove their Total Depravity theory because within it is Noah and his family, people who broke the mold of total depravity by their righteous lives.

Men are depraved, and that is totally true. But it is a jump which is not necessarily so to say that because men are depraved, they are totally depraved, and there is nothing that any person could ever do that would please God. When a person repents and believes in Jesus Christ, does that please God or not?

The issue we have with Calvinism is that Calvinism deposits man’s salvation as being controlled and triggered by election and predestination. That point is never proved by Scripture. Election is a broad term which includes “selection” to many different things, not just salvation. Being elect to salvation does not absolutely mean we personally have nothing to do with it.

The truth of the matter is that the Bible represents a person getting saved, first because God provided a way for them to be saved, and then secondly, because they individually respond to that way, embracing it. It is always “repent and believe”, and never, ever is it “look to see if you are elect”. What triggers salvation is not a realization that you are elect (never does Scripture present entering salvation because you “realize” something about your election), but rather a personal action of believing. Repentance is turning from whatever else you are embracing to embrace the salvation of Jesus Christ. Continue reading

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Cult Exit: Problems, Detention, and How-Tos

Cult Exit: Problems, Detention, and How-Tos is an article by David Cox on identifying a cult through the difficulty in leaving it.

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Calvinism Enoch pleased God Total Depravity

Calvinism Enoch pleased God Total Depravity. In this post, we examine the Calvinist position of man’s total depravity. This is the first in a series. Calvinism Enoch pleased God Total Depravity

Let’s do a quick analysis of this topic. First of all, if nobody can in any wise ever do anything that pleases God, then why try? Why not just live in our sins, and “enjoy” our sins to the best we can? Secondly, if the Bible teaches that nobody ever has ever done anything good at all, an extremist position carrying as far as you logically can, then why does the Bible say that certain people pleased God with their actions and lives? If Calvinist’s Total Depravity is right, then the Bible would contradict itself.
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Problems with Total Depravity or Inability

Problems with Total Depravity or Inability examines the flaws and errors of Total Depravity (really total inability). Problems with Total Depravity or Inability

Introduction to Problems with Total Depravity or Inability

Let’s make this as simple as we can so that people can understand us. Calvinism wishes to totally remove all concepts of moral activity for Christians. Say what they may say about holiness, sanctification, and leaving off sinning, the truth of the matter is that their teachings (if believed and followed lead their followers) push people strongly down the road of moral inactivity to a state of spiritual bankruptcy. There is no other alternative if you follow Calvinism. You may not be as advanced as “a 5 pointer”, but you are on the same road, no matter what you say or think. Problems with Total Depravity or Inability Continue reading

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Why so many Crises Today?

Why so many Crises Today? Is an article about our day with a constant crisis at every corner and how this works into the Antichrist and his takeover.

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